Start one? Make it anonymous, maybe, so that who/what doesn't enter into it...

That's probably the real answer, in which case it probably won't happen. :( I'm looking for help but moderating a community is a whole other time commitment. I'm more than happy to return the favor, for whatever my opinion/advice would be worth. I like the idea of allowing anonymous critique but I imagine it would make the need for an active and alert moderator all the more imperative.

Maybe I can - at the very least - enable anonymous commenting on my icon posts? I don't know that it'll funnel people my way who have both the time and the wish to critique, but maybe it would free the tongue of someone worried about my getting upset with them?

Okay...now that I know you want creative criticism..I will try and channel my photo professor..heh..so..the next time you post a batch I will get all nit picky on them..lol..later H!

Thank you! Yay!

Seeing as I added your icons to my "Inspiration" filter because I really, really wish I could crop 1/10th as well, I'd love to get your feedback. My icons feel "static" to me and I'd like to get a better sense of action. For all the explosions and military fighting scenes in Stargate, fer instance, you'd never know it from my icons. :| I think that's to do with my cropping (face in the left 1/3 or the right 1/3? seems to be my repertoire) and screen cap choice, but an outside opinion is always welcomed.

I'll help :)

Yay! -- and *GULP*. Can I admit now that I've been kind of glad that the fandom we share is so perfectly covered by paddies that I can't imagine iconning QaF? Thus, I knew that my icon posts were likely to fly under your radar.

I'd love the opinion of an artist even though I know I fall well short of making art. I'm intensely aware of when I'm venturing into a field I know nothing about -- and I know I'm clueless about creating art. Have we discussed my love of answers I can put a box around and call it done? That total right brain-dominated thinking...However, I'm never going to get better without honest feedback. Maybe I'll never measure up and maybe I will. I won't know until I try, though, so I'd be very, very glad to have your opinion any time you want to offer it. :)

Do you have any particular batch you want me to look at?

Oh! I put together a huge batch of icons a while back when I thought I'd found a community that would critique...but I don't think you want to sift through 50 icons. How about these 15?

They're icons I tend to like for various reasons and I think they're representative of my general style. I think that my main areas of weakness are cropping (or composition) and text so that's what I'm most worried about but if you disagree, please feel free to tell me that some other area needs attention. Whatever. :)

Also? Feel free to skip any you want. I'd have preferred to offer 5 for comment because that's a manageable number but I wanted to include a better variety. Also? If there's another icon you want to critique that isn't there, don't let its absence stop you. I'm open to all ideas, all suggestions. I'm, er, trying really hard to offer icons so that there's somewhere to start but without limiting you or seeming to demand that you only look in one spot.

I may have been the wrong person after all to talk to you about these icons, not because I don't think the imagery is beautiful and well-rendered, but because, with the notable exception of Calvin, I have no idea who any of these people are, nor what their particular icons might mean LOL

So, in light of that, I will say that the imagery IS beautifully rendered, the subject matter- while baffling to a pop culture noob like me- is probably exceedingly appropriate to your target audience, and they are correct, they are lovely icons. I particularly love the Calvin icon, both because I am a huge fan, but also because I think little Calvin commenting on "The Gay Agenda" is something his author might have done, himself, given the opportunity ;)

The "Big Tool" icon is cute, tho I have to say I had to study it for a moment to make out what it actually was. Again, though, I suspect that the members of that fandom will get it right away ;) The icon on the far right top row is lovely. And is that Godzilla? What does the Chinese text say and why is he climbing the icon from both sides? ;)

I wish I understood them better. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful :(

I almost said something about context being important to grokking an icon. The images are so small that they frequently require a shared cultural background to derive meaning from them. I've seen icons for fandoms I know nothing about and even the best of them tend to leave me flat. I didn't say anything, though, because one of my complaints about my work is the composition and text, which I think one can have an opinion about without knowing the fandom.

My favorite art form is the portrait and I think that's what I gravitate to in cropping pics. Another iconner agreed with me that I tend to go for the tight, extremely up-close view -- and textless. Partly, I think it's old eyes with a long history of myopia wanting everything crystal clear and partly I think it's not knowing what to do differently.

while baffling to a pop culture noob like me

Hee - I'm not certain that Sci Fi will ever be pop culture if it isn't Star Wars but I know precisely what you mean. It was why, in fact, I threw in the icon on the bottom row labelled, "Ben." Nobody will get the context for it because Ben is an original character created by jalabert. I was hoping to offer enough icons that were context-free so that not every icon would speak to those who share my brand of geek-itude.

I particularly love the Calvin icon

I really wish Watterson were still drawing C&H. *sigh* For me, the golden days of comics were The Far Side, C&H, and Bloom County. I wasn't certain Watterson would have touched a political hot button but I loved using the exaggerated horror of the innocence represented by Calvin to comment on the stupidity of the whole "we're under siege" mentality. It's also a reference to the idea of "we have to be taught to hate."

The "Big Tool" icon is cute, tho I have to say I had to study it for a moment to make out what it actually was.

It was a moment that stood out to me visually from nine years of the show and it's one of the first icons I made because I sought out the image to icon while working my way through awmpdotnet's brilliant Pop Art on Photoshop series. I can totally see, though, that the non-Stargate fan would not recognize that as our studly alien ally shooting the cannon off of a downed Glider. ;-) Otherwise, as mcroft intimated one time, it looks like a much more suggestive icon than I ever saw it as.

And is that Godzilla? What does the Chinese text say and why is he climbing the icon from both sides? ;)

Yes! It is Godzilla. jalabert is a HUGE fan of G and she asked me to make her some G icons when I first started. I threw that icon in because it's as close as I come to, "meaning divorced from context and meant to please solely by its looks" in an icon. The cap itself was boring so I had to use composition and color. I made G a plastic-y green (he was gray in the cap) as a salute to the often cheesy nature of early G movies, fer instance.

I wish I knew what the Chinese says. That was a total compromise because what I really wanted was a Japanese character that I wish I knew what it said. After all, Godzilla is Japanese! ;) Seriously, it's there solely for atmosphere and not because there's any meaning. The two-sided thing was my playing with image repetition to emphasize a point - in this case his looooong tail. Since Chinese art tradition is the closest I get to Japanese art, I also tried to have each non-written element continue beyond the edge of the icon -- the implication is that this is a window on the world and does not contain it. Yadda. It sounds pretentious now that I'm typing it but it wasn't meant that way. It was my trying to capture a style.

I wish I understood them better. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful :(

Awww. *hugs* You're more helpful than you know. Just going through and explaining the icons in response to your comments made me realize that I try to pack a LOT of meaning into an icon; that meaning is typically visible to just me. I haven't incorporated as much meaning of late and that could be the true source of my discontent. It's something for me to think - and ramble on and on - about. :)

I can do that. I'm great on criticism. Might be because I love flames myself, but yeah.

*uses same icon*

LOL! Please, feel free to critique my icons at any time. Frequently, the icons I love get no takers and ones I think are, "eh," get lots of love. I accept that my perceptions are colored by having made them and so I'm probably blind in many areas. I need someone to tell me when the emperor is naked.

I want people to say, "Gee, that's a whole page of icons that look all the same," or, as jalabert once said to me, "Why'd you make him urine yellow?" (She was right, too. Will I ever live down having to admit that?!?) I think I've gone as far as I can on my own. I want people to give an honest response if they have the time. :)

I don't consider myself in any way, shape, or form, and icon expert; however, I know what I like and don't like. I am often struck by certain people's icons and other ones don't do much for me at all. I do have a tendency to comment and snag. But, if you are looking for specific critiques, I think I could do that for you. Why don't you go ahead and let me know which icons in particular you would like comments on and I'll take a look. Just let me know - if you are looking for a "real artist's" opinion, though, that would not be me.

Oh, I'm no expert, either, and I'd very much welcome anything you had to say. I have a "real artist" whom I've somehow conned into critiquing but I'm also interested in how the icons work for fellow fans. My ideal would be as close to real art as I can get in 100x100 pixels that ALSO appeals to fans, tells what a character is about, and either reminds one of an episode or makes the viewer laugh.

I've got what I hope is a manageable number of icons, fifteen, here. I think they're representative of the general work I do and I think my weaknesses are cropping (composition) and text. If you disagree, don't hesitate to tell me. I'm happy for any and all comments on anything that strikes your fancy.

As I said in another comment above, I'm trying really hard to offer a manageable group to look at without demanding that only those icons can -- or all of them must -- be reviewed.

Ok, I'm officially a crappy LJ friend. I completely forgot about doing this for you. bleh *scurries off to look at the icons*

No! Not true! I consider anybody's willingness to sit there, look at my icons, and give honest feedback to be a *gift*. And, yanno, gifts are never *expected* but always gratefully received. :)

OMG ok.

First of all let me premise that I don't feel in any shape or form an "icon expert". I love making icons and for some reason people seem to like the stuff I make, but that's about it.

That said, if you want, I could tell you what I -personally- like or dislike in your icons...again, it would just be MY PERSONAL OPINION... I don't know what's good or bad, I just know what I like (or don't).

So, if you feel that my personal opinion on your work could help you in any way, I'm more than willing to give it to you...just point me to some of your icons and I'll try my best.

*hides*

That said, if you want, I could tell you what I -personally- like or dislike in your icons...again, it would just be MY PERSONAL OPINION... I don't know what's good or bad, I just know what I like (or don't).

I would be thrilled if you took the time to do that -- and also a bit scared. :) It's like a newbie writer being told by Hemingway, "I could tell you what I like and dislike about your manuscript, if you want." Absolutely I respect your opinion; I hope I've managed to convey in my comments that I adore your icons. One of the things I try to take from your work is the way you capture defining moments between characters. I think one can understand Brian and Justin from your icons without having watched QaF, for instance.

I'm very stubborn about thinking for myself so please don't worry about what you say. I'm clear on the difference between opinion and fact. :) I will take all offered opinions into consideration; I hope to have my eyes & horizons opened. For instance, I've been oversharpening images even though I've read about it and knew to avoid it -- I just didn't *see* it in my icons until very recently. I can't be the first to notice and I wish someone had said something. I might not have listened but I'd have had the thought cooking in the back of my mind and I've been looking for whether I agreed when I made new icons.

So, if you feel that my personal opinion on your work could help you in any way, I'm more than willing to give it to you...just point me to some of your icons and I'll try my best.

I'll let you decide how you want to look at them. If you want to critique particular icons, I have a small-ish group of 15 that I hope spans a lot of my interests and styles. In that group, I think the first icon and the last two are more representative of my tendencies but feel free to comment, or not, on anything there or anywhere else.

I tend to think that my composition is boring and that my text skills are minimal. If you want to look at trends rather than discuss individual icons, I have a larger grouping of 50 that I think better shows my weaknesses in text and composition.

Any feedback is more than welcome and very much appreciated.

I won't even comment on the Hemingway thing because...OMG crazy!! :-)

Anyway, I'm taking a look to the smallish group of icons:

#1
what I like: the cropping it's very smart and the guy's expression (is it Daniel from SG1?) is quite peculiar...I like that. I also like the coloring, simple but very nice.

what I don't like: the icon is a teeeeeny bit too overshapened, it's really a minimal thing (mainly in the eyes), but it prevents the icon to be just perfect.

What I'd do differently: I would probably crop the icon in a "smaller" way, I mean, I'd include more Daniel's neck and part of his forehead so I could see his expression better and I'd have more "void space" on the left, to "balance" the icon...

Overall, I think it's a very good icon, I really like it.


#2
what I like: the coloring is amazing and the cropping is really good. Again, I really love the guy's expression.

what I don't like: it's quite oversharpened (more than the previous one) and I really don't like the text.
I should premise that I prefer textless icons 99% of the time, but aside from that, I honestly think that that icon would be gorgeous without the text or with a smaller/better placed text.

what I'd do differently: I'd shift the image on the right, cropping part of the guy's head so I'd have more room for the text. Then I'd use a smaller text and write the caption on the left, in the middle of the icon using a slightly darker color.

Overall, I think it's a gorgeous icon (if textless).

#3
what I like: I like the composition and the cropping.

what I don't like: uhmmm...maybe the coloring is a bit rainbow-y?

what I'd do differently: I'd fade the biggest/background image more or, in alternative, I'd make it black and white (or monochromatic). Basically, I'd "push" the smaller image out by "fading" the other one more.

Overall is a really good icon, nothing technically "wrong" about it.

#4
what I like: I really love the cropping and the text placement. :x:x:x

what I don't like: I don't particularly like the coloring (and in this case it's REALLY a matter of personal opinion, it's not like the colors "crush" or anything but I don't like the reddish and the pale bluish together).
I don't like the font you used (but I like the color).

what I'd do differently: for the coloring of this icon I'd use some fancy texture...there's a lot of "void space" that would look extremely pretty with the right texture and coloring. I'd use a smaller font, probably in caps.

Overall, there's nothing wrong with this icon, just me being picky. ;))

#5
what I like: I love the composition and the coloring, the "mirror" idea is clever and very pretty.

what I don't like: you chopped Six and Eight's head and it somehow makes the whole composition less impact-y.

what I'd do differently: I'd keep Six and Eight's head into the composition (on the top) and crop them out (like you did) on the bottom.

Overall, one of my favorite icons from this batch. Very clever and well, just pretty. :x:x:x

Sooo... that was a little teaser of my "words of wisdom". *snort*

Do you find any of this useful? Should I keep going or I'm just being totally irritating?

Do you find any of this useful? Should I keep going or I'm just being totally irritating?

*iz stunned* This is EXACTLY the sort of feedback that I most dreamed of getting. I don't need reassurance that an icon is good or that there's nothing wrong with it. If I thought it were perfect, I wouldn't have offered it up for comment. :) And, since I've yet to make a perfect icon...

I'm still processing what you said, looking at the images with your suggestions in mind. Yeah, that oversharpening thing is biting me on the ass and you're right to call me on it. So far? I don't disagree with a single thing you've said.

If you have the time and inclination, I'd very much like to hear more of your thoughts. Yanno, you could probably earn a living critiquing others' icons in this sort of detail. :) At least, it's a service I feel that I should pay you for.

*wipes forehead*

I'm glad you're finding my observations kind of useful, it's not like I ever did anything like this before, so I'm just sort of learning myself...let me know if there's something you'd like me to focus on more...anything you didn't understand (I tend to ramble a lot) or you didn't find useful at all (so I'll stop bugging you with it). :-)

Anyway... second row, right?

#1
what I like: pretty much everything. Love the cropping, love the coloring, love the subject...*g*

what I don't like: there's nothing I don't like...if I really, really have to pick something, I'd say Lee's torso is a bit too bright, but that's just a very minimal thing.

what I'd do differently: nothing. :-)

Overall a beautiful icon. Great cropping, great scene, great coloring.

#2
what i like: I like the mirror idea and I like that you used it vertically and not horizontally, very original.

what I don't like: you cropped off Godzilla's head. I think the whole composition and symmetry would work better with the whole Godzy's body, head included. ;))

what I'd do differently: I'd keep the heads in the frame, that's all.

Overall I don't really know the subject and I never iconized cartoons, so I don't really know what to think about it...it's fun to look at, tho. :-)

#3
what I like: I love the coloring and the cap is really dramatic, great impact.

what I don't like: the text (omg I'm such a textless freak, sorry) and the font you used, it sort of doesn't merge well with the pic.

what I'd do differently: I'd leave it textless or, in alternative I'd use some oldish font (you know, those old book-medieval type of font) to write the text. Also I'd place it a bit lower, near the neck.

Overall a very pretty icon, I don't recognize the subject so I can't be more specific, but it's definitely very pretty.

#4
what I like: love the cropping and the coloring (the skin omg) is gorgeous.

what I don't like: it's a teeeny bit overshapened, but again, it's minimal, really.

what I'd do differently: uhm...let's see...I really like it the way it is...if I really have to pick something, I'd probably take away those black shadowy things on the corners, to make the subject "pop out" more. Or maybe not...it's one of those things I'd have to actually see to decide if I'd liked it better...*ponders*

Overall it's a gorgeous icon, nothing much to add. :-)

#5
what I like: the text is funny and clever and it's sarcastic without being too "violent", if you know what I mean.

what I don't like: I'm not sure I like the font (since it's a comic, I'd use comic-like fonts, for example "comic" or "acme") even tho it sorta works.

what I'd do differently: I'd probably use a different font and maybe I'd try to put the yellow-orange behind the guy, just to create a bit more contrast.

Overall, a very funny icon. :-)


I'll try to post the comments on the last row soonish (it takes quite some time to do this thing properly... *g*), unless you want me to take a look to something else... :-)

Again, hope it's helping, even a tiny bit! :x:x:x

*smooches*

*SMOOCHES*

I am finding this IMMENSELY useful. I'm planning to respond to all of your points. Not to be argumentative but to show what I am getting out of your efforts. Sort of proving that you're not wasting your time. :)

I'll go over the icons I have in the last row tonight and see if it might not be smarter to switch some out because I think they have a similar set of problems. Rather than having you critique the same problem over and over, I'd like to see if I can find some new errors. ;-)

One thing I've done purposefully is not give *my* take on an icon before you comment because I wanted to see if the same things that I disliked leapt out at you. Once I think something is "wrong," I can't see past it. Sometimes your critiques match mine but sometimes you noticed problems that I hadn't. I also want to play a little with your suggested cropping changes and see what you do. I really hadn't thought that cutting off as much of the heads as I have been, for instance, lessened the impact. I need to see the two side by side to decide what I think. I want to look at the 10 again with all of this in mind and give it at least as much time and thought as you've given me. I really, really, really appreciate it.

You're not helping a "tiny bit;" you're helping me a lot!

I also want to play a little with your suggested cropping changes and see what you do. I really hadn't thought that cutting off as much of the heads as I have been, for instance, lessened the impact. I need to see the two side by side to decide what I think.

That's great! Actually I was sorta going to suggest you to do that, but I didn't want to sound too..uhmmm...imposing?

Anyway, I think it's really important to actually play with the icons...see, I made all the suggestions "blindly", so to speak. I don't have the original photoshop files to play with, so I can only imagine how the icons would look like if I changed "this or that", but it's all kind of hypothetical...I can't actually be sure about how they'll look until I'll actually see them, you know what I mean?

So, basically I'm telling you what I think it would work, but the only way to know it for sure is to see the final icon. :-)

/ramble

That's great! Actually I was sorta going to suggest you to do that, but I didn't want to sound too..uhmmm...imposing?

Feel free to say whatever comes to mind without worrying about editing. I don't view these as commands but as suggestions. I'm good at deciding to do what I want to do. I threw open the door, looking for any and all ideas anyone offered, because I'd tried everything I could think of and had reached a deadend.

I know that what you're doing for me takes a lot of time and I totally appreciate it. Whether or not a particular suggestion applied to a particular cap would make a particular icon better isn't exactly what I'm worried about. For instance, maybe the head was cut off in the original cap and I can't do what you suggested but your mentioning it means I know to look for a better cap. Or, whatever. The point is I wasn't satisfied with my end product and that is what you're looking at and helping to identify how it could be better.

You're helping me develop an eye for composition, pointing out some of my weaknesses; you're giving me awareness and tools for improvement. That is invaluable. *smooches*

You're helping me develop an eye for composition, pointing out some of my weaknesses; you're giving me awareness and tools for improvement. That is invaluable.

OMG OK. :-)

And btw, if you have questions about anything I say, or even, you know, random questions, feel free to ask...I'll try to answer if I can. :-)

Also, because I was alone at work - and bored out of my fucking mind - I played around with one of your icons...;))

I couldn't do much (since I didn't have the original file), but still...

.....

/random

Yes! See, that's what I think text should look like and...continually fail to do on my icons. I know that if I did it (and, actually, I did *snort*), I'd think, "but is it legible?" and I'd continue to make it bigger until it almost covered the image. I can read it, yes, but I worry it's because I know what it says and that others won't.

Sorry work is so boring -- but for my sake I hope you're still there and can peek at the file. What size font is the bottom line? I'd like to get a better feel for sizes. If not, don't worry about it. I've got some memroeis devoted to text and I can compare to the examples there and guess. :)

I'm sure, as I play around, I'll come up with questions. Again? Thank you for taking the time to tutor me. I am grateful.

I know that if I did it (and, actually, I did *snort*), I'd think, "but is it legible?" and I'd continue to make it bigger until it almost covered the image. I can read it, yes, but I worry it's because I know what it says and that others won't.

Big text is cool too, I love it when it's properly placed and when it "suits" the icon. The secret - imo - is that if you know you're going to make an icon with text, and you want the text to be legible and "prominent" (so to speak), you have to make (crop, especially) the icon to fit the text, not the other way around. ;-)

What size font is the bottom line?

Ack, I'm home now and I don't have the psd file... but I seem to recall that it's "times new roman" 9 or 10 px.

*smooches* ♥

#1: what I don't like: there's nothing I don't like...if I really, really have to pick something, I'd say Lee's torso is a bit too bright, but that's just a very minimal thing.

Your eye as well as your brain is sexy. I included this one because it was a total experiment for me in emphasis. I tried to add to the depth of the image by placing a very light brush in white over the left side of Apollo's torso (I mean, like 8-10% on soft light) and a black brush (again, 8-10% on soft light) over Starbuck in the background. I'd have to recheck the *.psd file at home, but I think that annoying over explosure of his shoulder is in the cap and not due to my brush but...damn! Those are good, good eyes you've got!

#3 what I don't like: the text (omg I'm such a textless freak, sorry) and the font you used, it sort of doesn't merge well with the pic.

No, you're absolutely right. Don't apologize. The cap is from a relatively obscure sci fi show. I put the text in, realized I hadn't downloaded the font for the show, went to get it, and found it's gone. Or that I misremembered seeing it. Or something. In this case, the font doesn't fit and I can't guess why I left it as it is and developed a blind spot to it. *rolls eyes at self*

what I'd do differently: ...Also I'd place it a bit lower, near the neck.

Near the neck? Can you explain why? I'm not questioning the decision so much as trying to see why that placement is more pleasing. Placement is a frequent question for me. :)

#5 what I don't like: I'm not sure I like the font (since it's a comic, I'd use comic-like fonts, for example "comic" or "acme") even tho it sorta works.
I'm not all that fond of the font myself. I chose it because it is the font for that comic. Or, it often is.

I'd probably use a different font and maybe I'd try to put the yellow-orange behind the guy, just to create a bit more contrast.
Oh, good suggestion! I'm always so focused on making the words legible when I use text that I tend to neglect the image.

I'll try to post the comments on the last row soonish (it takes quite some time to do this thing properly... *g*), unless you want me to take a look to something else... :-)

I am so very, very appreciative of all the time you're taking on this. I never intended for anyone to spend so much time on it. I'm getting a lot out of it, though, so I want you to know that I'm falling all over myself in glee.

I went through and changed the icons in the last row. I think I've found some with less oversharpening but all are various layout/composition/text experiments. I pruned the text down to 2. If you're tired of this, please feel free to ignore them. :) The not-so-active community I found icon_concrit, limits entries to 10 and encourages fewer. You've already done me an immense favor. You've given me some invaluable feedback.

If you're willing to look at a last five, I'd dearly love to have your critique.

Near the neck? Can you explain why? I'm not questioning the decision so much as trying to see why that placement is more pleasing. Placement is a frequent question for me. :)

Eh, there isn't a scientific reason or anything...it's just that I visually like "empty" space, so if you place the text in the middle of the icon, near the neck, you'll leave the whole right part of the icon "free" and that's something I visually like. ;-)

I like tne negative space, too. Looking through the icons I've snatched, I can see that I tend to be drawn to beautiful bodies and/or negative space. *grin* I'm keeping this in mind now as I practice making icons, fighting the urge to fill every pixel.

OMG here I am, last row:

#1
What I like: uhm...honestly...not much. It's my least favorite from the whole batch. I guess the "skin job" (as I call it, you know, when you smooth the skin) is ok and the coloring is not bad.

What I don't like: the cropping is...meh. I don't really understand the rotation of the image...it could have worked if you'd crop just the face, maybe...but like that, I don't know.
I also don't like the grungy background and those disturbing lines going all over the image.

What I'd do differently: I'd either rotate the image until it's "straight" or crop it with just a face close up. I'd tone down a bit the super white t-shirt and use a texture for background.

Overall: as I said, it's the icon I like less from the whole batch.

#2
What I like: GREAT cropping and coloring. I really like this one. :x:x:x

What I don't like: Uhm... there's nothing I don't like, it's great. :-)

What I'd do differently: Uhm... just for the sake of experimenting ('cos, as I said, the icon is great just the way it is) I'd try to enhance the color of the sky, make it a deep light blue or maybe use a gradient to mess with the colors...dunno... ;))

Overall: a great icon, lot of "atmosphere", if you know what I mean...:-)

#3
What I like: the cropping is quite original as is the coloring. I don't know the subject, so I don't really *get* it, but it's pretty.

What I don't like: the font you used for the text. I like the color, and the placement is not bad, but the font just doesn't work for me.

What I'd do differently: uhm...aside for changing the font, I'd maybe try to write it all in one row, and I'd place it just under the image, so I could leave the "blue thingy" in the lower part of the icon a bit more evident...you know what I mean? *iz English challenged*

Overall, it's a very nice icon. As I said, I don't know the subject so I don't get the text, but it's lovely.

#4
What I like: I looove the cropping! And the coloring is gorgeous. :x.x:x

What I don't like: it's a bit oversharpened (especially the eyes), but I do like the details of the hair. :-)

What I'd do differently: uhm...nothing, aside for the not oversharpening thingy... I can't really understand what's that white-y band on his hair, though...can you see what I'm talking about? I'd take away that "thing" if I could.

Overall, a gorgeous icon for a gorgeous subject. :-)

#5
What I like: I love the cap you chose! And the text is totally fitting (and funny!!). I also like the coloring and the cropping, even if I'd "work with it" it a little (see below).

What I don't like: I kinda don't like the font (omg you must be so tired to hear me say that :|) and the semi-transparency you used. I mean, I usually love it when the text is merged with the background, but in this case Jack is SHOUTING, so the text should pop out, not blend in with the background, don't you think?

What I'd do differently: even tho I really like your cropping I'd try to either shift the image all the way to the right, cropping Jack's ear off, or I'd just put the image right in the middle of the icon. I'd use a strong font (like arial black or impact) for the text and a bright color (but not white).

Overall, I really like the icon, perfect "skin job" and great coloring. Also, it's funny. :-)

Hope I wasn't too annoying... *iz nervous*

*loves*

Starting at the end...

Hope I wasn't too annoying... *iz nervous*
Annoying?!? You're doing me a favor, hon, and I soooooo appreciate it. Seriously.

#1 -- I suppose context is helpful in grokking icons but I threw that one in because I wanted an icon where I'd actually used a texture in a way that wasn't just replacing the background. I don't know if the cropping and rotation make more sense if you consider that I was given the source pic and asked to produce something that looked like it could be a rap artist CD cover for an AU story written by a friend. My first attempt was this but the character was supposed to be a "serious" musician and I had to angle the pic to crop out the humorous part.

I don't know why I'm telling you this. But I did manage to find an icon that distracted you from my oversharpening! ;-)

#2 -- So, you like as is? I'll play with some blue gradients to see what it would look like with the blue sky "punched up" a bit. I've been wondering about using a texture but everything I've tried seems to distract from the detail I spent *hours* bringing out of the pic. Landscapes are hard for me because I can never tell when they're "finished." I can go on playing forever.

#3 -- Excellent suggestion! Now that I'm aware my text can be smaller and still legible, that opens new doors to me. I was really sorry that the text took over the bottom bit of the icon. I wanted it to more clearly be a banner across the empty space of the street. (As for the subject matter, that's from Stargate and the NID is a group of ham-fisted government renegades. That's from a scene where they covertly sneak into town. I think the director went for pretty pic rather than making sense.)

#4 -- I can't really understand what's that white-y band on his hair, though...can you see what I'm talking about? I'd take away that "thing" if I could.
I know exactly what you're talking about. That was the lighting in the original pic and I tried to mute its effect because it is weird. Short of painting over it, I'm not really certain how to get rid of it.

#5 -- I kinda don't like the font (omg you must be so tired to hear me say that :|)
I'll admit, it would be nice to have one that didn't leave you feeling it was wrong -- but that isn't the point here and it wouldn't be as helpful to me. Partially I chose the text icons because I knew they were wrong, even if I couldn't explain *how* they were wrong, but they're also representative of my text.

I know I need to work on it. If you said, "I love it all," that wouldn't really be helpful to me. You know? If what I wanted was, "Oh, shiny!" I'd have gone to pickmybest or published another round since the only comments one gets that way are of the love variety.

As for the transparency, I can't tell you how I dithered over that. So amusing since my usual weakness is text overpowering the icon but I was nervous about leaving it opaque and huge. Go figure.

I'm not certain how to change my mental outlook on text. I'm probably going to stick with textless more for now but continue playing behind the scenes. I expect one day my brain will go, "oh! snap!" and what I struggle with for now will seem obvious then. I see many hours of playing with text nobody will ever see ahead of me...

You're right about the crop, too. His ear detracts in this pic and I didn't even notice. I've started making as many as 10 crops from a pic so I can look at them all in one spot and pick the one I like best. This is time consuming and I hope my eye will develop quickly so that I can get it right the first or second time rather than on crop #8. *fingers crossed*

OK. You have done this beautiful, beautiful thing for me. I cannot begin to tell you how helpful this was or how much I appreciate your taking the time to look at each icon in detail and critique it. Very, very, very helpful and I'd offer to have your baby or something if only my own fear of fetuses didn't stop me. If I can ever do a favor - or thirty - for you, please do not hesitate to ask and it is yours.

*squishes madly and blows (kisses)*

I don't know if the cropping and rotation make more sense if you consider that I was given the source pic and asked to produce something that looked like it could be a rap artist CD cover for an AU story written by a friend. My first attempt was this but the character was supposed to be a "serious" musician and I had to angle the pic to crop out the humorous part.

You know, actually knowing about the context helps a lot...and given what you just said, I think the icon reached its goal.
I do like the other attempt better, but it's less "hip hop"-ish, so I think you chose the right one. :-)

Landscapes are hard for me because I can never tell when they're "finished." I can go on playing forever.

Eh, I know what you mean. :-) I often make multiple versions of the same icon (or cap), so I totally know about being indecisive. ;-)

Now that I'm aware my text can be smaller and still legible, that opens new doors to me.

YAY!! :D:D:D

That was the lighting in the original pic and I tried to mute its effect because it is weird. Short of painting over it, I'm not really certain how to get rid of it.

Oh, well, sometimes the caps are just the way they are...the icon is gorgeous anyway and I'm probably the only one who noticed it...*iz weirdly picky*

I'll admit, it would be nice to have one that didn't leave you feeling it was wrong

Eh, just remember that I sort of forced myself to be the Devil's advocate (as we say), I was deliberately hyper critical, even when the icon was mostly fine. :-) That was the whole point, right?

OK. You have done this beautiful, beautiful thing for me. I cannot begin to tell you how helpful this was or how much I appreciate your taking the time to look at each icon in detail and critique it. Very, very, very helpful and I'd offer to have your baby or something if only my own fear of fetuses didn't stop me. If I can ever do a favor - or thirty - for you, please do not hesitate to ask and it is yours.

You know, this whole thing was actually quite helpful to me too. It forced me to justify and motivate my choices...when I make icons I don't do it "consciously"... I don't stop to think about WHY something works and something doesn't...I just do it because it looks pretty. ;-)
But now I sort of started to pay attention to this stuff and it's quite interesting. :-)

And btw, feel free to ask questions or...you know, anything I can do to help, I'd me more than happy to do it... and not just because your generous gift. :x:x:x

*loves*

I do like the other attempt better
Man, you must really not like that icon because the other attempt is lame. *grins* The final icon actually had text on it; I offered up the textless version because I was trying to avoid my text issues. ;-)

I'm probably the only one who noticed it...*iz weirdly picky*
No, I don't you were alone. I'd been specifically asked in the past to icon this character (he's not my fave, so...). Yet the icon was utterly ignored when I published it. That's why I stuck him in -- to see if the critique turned up something I hadn't noticed. I guess that the weird white thing was too distracting? *shrug*

Eh, just remember that I sort of forced myself to be the Devil's advocate (as we say), I was deliberately hyper critical, even when the icon was mostly fine. :-) That was the whole point, right?
PRECISELY! I am in a rut and I need to break out of it. Part of doing that is getting down to the nitty gritty. I'm also looking to develop my eye and my way of seeing. This is not natural for me so I have to work at it. If what's wrong, even if it's just sort of wrong rather than OMG!wrong, isn't commented on, I'm unlikely to see it on my own. :|

And btw, feel free to ask questions or...you know, anything I can do to help, I'd me more than happy to do it
I might eventually ask for help on getting skin to glow as well as you do in b/w *points to icon* but I haven't exhausted all my options in trying. I'll hit a dead-end before I ask. :)

Oh! Are the caps you post at Queer Eyes the same caps you use in making your icons? I've been thinking about snagging a few and playing around to compare my b/w with yours. Starting with the exact same cap eliminates a lot of variables. (I'm not talking about making the same icons, obviously. This is for private practice/learning.) I'm always hypercritical of what I do but if I place it next to yours, I know when I'm getting it right.

*loves right back*

Oh! Are the caps you post at Queer Eyes the same caps you use in making your icons? I've been thinking about snagging a few and playing around to compare my b/w with yours. Starting with the exact same cap eliminates a lot of variables. (I'm not talking about making the same icons, obviously. This is for private practice/learning.) I'm always hypercritical of what I do but if I place it next to yours, I know when I'm getting it right.

Yep, they are. I actually cap them specifically to make the icons, then, since I already have them, I post them on my site in case someone wants to use them for their graphics, or just to stare at teh pretty. :-)

(Doh! I responded to the wrong comment the first time. This comment will be incomplete. I started it last night but I've got house guests and I don't get enough time in one sitting to finish my thoughts. At this point, if I don't post a partial response, I don't know when I'll have the time to finish.)

Do you find any of this useful?

Absolutely. Thinking about points you've made helps me distill my thoughts:
- I'm realizing is that I often focus on parts of the icon but rarely step back and look at the whole.
- I see with my brain rather than my eyes. For example, I know those eyes are oversharpened but I haven't been "seeing" them as that because I want to see clear delineation between the irises and the whites of their eyes. Since I saw the original pic and have cut it down to its essentials, I don't "see" cropping as tightly as I tend to as diminishing the image's impact because it retains as much other detail as possible.

#1: (is it Daniel from SG1?)
Yes! It is. I wasn't aware you knew about SG1.

I'd have more "void space" on the left, to "balance" the icon...
This is a fine line for me and I'm never certain where it is. When there's too much space to the side, it feels unfinished to me. Wish I had a better eye for effective use of negative space.

One thing I'm noticing in looking at my icons and your suggestions is that I'm not looking at the whole of the final product. I'm looking at the original image, deciding what I think is the key element, and cropping to emphasize that key point. I think that this could be part of my dissatisfation with cropping/composition.

#2: I should premise that I prefer textless icons 99% of the time,
I prefer to make textless icons but I continue to try to place text on mine because as a user I prefer icons that have text.

I really don't like the text.
Agreed. 100%. I couldn't place my finger on what bugged me so much about that one and you've nailed it. I even made a textless version of it originally, but unfilled space makes me nervous and the text is covering some weirdness from the original cap. I should have painted over it in black if it bugged me.

I'd use a smaller text and write the caption on the left, in the middle of the icon using a slightly darker color
One thing I do with text is "fill" a space with it and I realize I need to stop that. Mostly it's because I want to guarantee that it's legible. Thank you for suggesting alternatives because often I don't *see* how to fix what annoys me about my text.

#3: I'd fade the biggest/background image more or, in alternative, I'd make it black and white (or monochromatic). Basically, I'd "push" the smaller image out by "fading" the other one more.
This was very experimental for me - it's made not from a screen cap but from my personal photography that I took. The lighting sucked and that throws everything off.

You know what's funny? I spent hours trying to get all that color in there in a way that "supported" the images without overwhelming them -- and making that back image more obvious. Ha! The stage was black and gray. He was wearing black. His hair was black. The screen behind him was gray where his image wasn't projected. I did a handful of my photos and decided that I didn't like what I was coming up with so I stopped. Your opinion confirms what I thought.

to be continued...

Peeking into your brain is sexy. :)

#4: what I'd do differently: for the coloring of this icon I'd use some fancy texture...there's a lot of "void space" that would look extremely pretty with the right texture and coloring. I'd use a smaller font, probably in caps.

There's a huge hole in my icon arsenal and it's textures. I collected thousands of them (no exaggeration) when I first started but I'm not clear on how to use them so they mostly go ignored. It's no surprise to me that only one of the 15 images in the group of icons uses a texture.

Are words in caps more easily read? I've shied away because I think of that as "shouting" but thinking about it, that doesn't apply to icons.

#5: Nothing to say. :) Your cropping suggestions are noted and I'm playing with it. I think it's interesting that the part that bugged me, the horizontal "off center" and the lack of perfect symmetry in the meeting points of the two halves of the image aren't what people mention. Those two things bug me but I suspected it was me obsessing. Which, apparently, I am. I like the geometry of the curves of Six's dress with Starbuck's breast/belly and Boomer's shirt strap but the geometrical nature makes my eye want it "perfect."

There's a huge hole in my icon arsenal and it's textures. I collected thousands of them (no exaggeration) when I first started but I'm not clear on how to use them so they mostly go ignored. It's no surprise to me that only one of the 15 images in the group of icons uses a texture.

Awww omg I love textures, they can be used in many different ways and they're always incredibly useful. If you want, you can take a look to my memories (and to the site linked on my user info, it's my textures-heaven) and see what kind of textures I use...many of those texture-artists also wrote tutorials explaining how to use them (and I'm sure there are many tutorials around anyway)...

Are words in caps more easily read? I've shied away because I think of that as "shouting" but thinking about it, that doesn't apply to icons.

I think on icons, it's more about easthetics and legibility than "netiquette"... a very small text written in caps would never be perceived (by me, at least) as shouting. In fact, I think 90% of my text icons are written in caps. :-)

(My reply just disappeared. ??? I've never had that happen before. I'll try to reconstruct.)

*points to icon* This is my favorite use of a texture -- or, what appears to me to be a texture.

...you can take a look to my memories...
I took you up on your invite and spent the weekend going through your memories and looking through tutorials you found helpful. I've spent the weekend playing with textures, cropping, and negative space. I still need tons more practice but now I have a new set of things to keep in mind while playing around. Thank you. :)

it's more about aesthetics and legibility than "netiquette"
Very true. I was shying away from it for no good reason. I've been playing with the caps and I find I like that better. Still have text issues out the wazoo -- and I've started saving them all textless, too -- that are going to take me a lot longer to work out.

This is my favorite use of a texture -- or, what appears to me to be a texture.

Definitely a texture. :-)

I've spent the weekend playing with textures, cropping, and negative space. I still need tons more practice but now I have a new set of things to keep in mind while playing around. Thank you. :)

*grins* You know, now I'm actually kind of excited for you.. I wanna see your new work, see what your creativity can do... :-)

Still have text issues out the wazoo -- and I've started saving them all textless, too -- that are going to take me a lot longer to work out.

Eh, who doesn't have text issues? I hate text...text is HARD. That's why I rarely use it... ;))
I'm sure that with the right icon, you'll also find the right text and everything will fall into place easily... :D

I wanna see your new work, see what your creativity can do
eep! No pressure, no pressure at all...Actually, I played around a lot, looked at tutorials and followed a couple. I can't say that I made anything I love. Maybe a couple that I don't hate. I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve.

So...when is the next time you'll be out of town or otherwise away from the internet? ;-)

Eh, who doesn't have text issues? I hate text...text is HARD. That's why I rarely use it... ;))
In a way, it's comforting to hear you say that because I've always loved your text. In a way, it scares the pants off of me to hear you say that because if *you* are having issues with it then I might well despair.

Anyhow. I'll continue to bumble around I'm sure. Hopefully some day it will click for me. In the meantime, I'm planning to offer textless versions of almost everything.

I'm in a sort of quandry for posting icons at this point. I had a post ready to go back on Sept. 11 but one of the shows I iconned was pre-2001 and featured a pre 9/11 Manhattan skyline. I wasn't certain about that timing so I waited...then I went out of town. Anywho, I had a bunch of icons I'd never posted but now I think they're okay but could be better. I do not want to post a bunch of icons that aren't, in fact, the very best that I'm capable of making. I'm hoping that going through the Paddies School of Seeing has made me capable of making a better icon. So...probably I'll prune heavily and continue to sit on them while I work on making something that won't embarrass me too much.

I do not want to post a bunch of icons that aren't, in fact, the very best that I'm capable of making. I'm hoping that going through the Paddies School of Seeing has made me capable of making a better icon. So...probably I'll prune heavily and continue to sit on them while I work on making something that won't embarrass me too much.

Awwww...I totally understand you wanting to post the best icons you can possibly make (why do you think it takes me ages to post a new batch?), but still, sometimes you just have to "let go".
Personally, I think the "perfect icon" is very rare...on a batch made of 100 icons I maybe make 5 or six icons that I'm totally, utterly satisfied with.

But I post them anyway, because I'm either "I have to post them now or I'll never will" or "I did the best I could, but the cap was too crappy/dark/low res/whatever to do better"...weirdly enough, sometimes the icons I really didn't want to post (because I didn't like them) are the ones getting more feedback. *life strange*

In conclusion, don't wait too long to post them and remember that's it's a work in progress! If I look back to my first few batches I either want to re-make them from scratch or erase them from the face of earth...thankfully I got better at this iconing thing, and so will you. :-)

Also, I promise I'll point out only the positive stuff for a change, how about that? ;))

*loves*

weirdly enough, sometimes the icons I really didn't want to post (because I didn't like them) are the ones getting more feedback. *life strange*
Absolutely. Ones I pretty much hated are often the most grabbed. I can't begin to guess what people will want so I tend to go with, "How embarrassed would I be to see my name attached to that?"

Also, I promise I'll point out only the positive stuff for a change, how about that? ;))
Do what you will, of course. Heaven knows it takes a LOT less time to say, "I like a couple of these," than it does to explain why you do or don't like something. I will still ask for and gratefully accept any feedback/critiques I can get. There's always room to improve.

Ok, long comment here, so I put it under a cut.



Ok, numbered #1 - #15 beginning with Daniel and numbering left to right.

#1 – Daniel – what I like about this icon is its clarity and the close-up of Daniel’s face. You can really see his expression and eyes. I don’t care for the coloring as much. It’s getting a bit too close to orange tones I think.

#2 – Maybourne – this one is great. Again, the clarity is fantastic. I always wonder how people do this. My icons are often blurry and the text is hard to read. The words of the text are very appropriate and the subtle changes in the text make the words jump out – you don’t just see the words – you can almost hear and feel the intense, “over the edge” insane voice Maybourne would be using to say the words. The coloring is appropriate – the darkness pulls you in and makes you feel the madness.

#3 – I like this one. Not a clue how the effects are done, but I like them – and the coloring is good too. Hmm, not too helpful with this one – I like it, but it doesn’t grab me and make me take a second look.

#4 – Now this one is great. The single word of text is perfect. And the starkness of the picture makes you feel the desolation. The simple contrast in coloring seems to emphasize it as well. I don’t think it would have worked in only b & w. The subtle shade of pink seems to create enough contrast to emphasize the isolation.

#5 – The composition of this one is neat and unique. I’m not a fan of Battlestar Galactica, so I don’t feel it would be fair to comment any further.

#6 – Again, since this is BSG, it would not be fair to comment. If I had a point of reference, I might be able to comment. It’s easier with Stargate because I’ve seen all the episodes and when it is something I recognize and it evokes some emotion; then I can comment appropriately. Once again, though, the clarity is good.

#7 – Not sure of its significance. Although, the dinosaurs are cute.

#8 – WB? The TV channel or initials for the person/character? I like the B & W in this one – it seems to suit the picture. Since I don’t know who it is, I again don’t have any frame of reference for commenting.

#9 – Again, I don’t know who this is, but I do think the coloring is fantastic. It’s just enough and not totally b & w. Again – great job with clarity.

#10 – This one is just hilarious! I love Calvin. You captured this quite well with the coloring and lettering – and of course, Calvin’s expression. It just evokes a chuckle.

#11 – Same comment as #9.

#12 – This one I love. The coloring is so great – you can just imagine SG-1 exiting the Stargate and exploring a new, great big world. It seems to hold such promise and beginnings with the subtle coloring. It’s almost as if the sun is starting to peek out from behind a cloud to greet them. This one does not have the sharpness like some of the others, but it doesn’t need it – the shapes in the distance beckon you to find out more - as if calling you to join SG-1 in exploring a new planet.

#13 – LOL. This one is great. Since I saw the episode, I recognize the scene. Perfect text, and great coloring. I like how you see the blue of the words against the black on the bottom. I would not have wanted to see any brightening effects on this icon. Something about darkness of night and the N.I.D – they just go together.

#14 – Ronon – I really like this one. Again, perfect clarity and close-up on his face. You don’t need to see his entire face to get that expression. It just makes you wonder – is he looking back at someone? What is he thinking?

#15 – O’Neil – perfect. Text fits the expression. Nothing else needs to be said.

Ok, I’m not sure if this information is helpful at all. Don’t forget that I’ve snooped through your icons – I’m not entirely sure these are representative of your work. You do have some other icons that are stunning. Anyway, I hope you are able to sift out something useful from all this blather.

long comment here
*smooches* Thank you!

#1 It’s getting a bit too close to orange tones I think.
I think I have a wider tolerance for weird skin colors than the average person. I've decided to blame it on the wonky t.v. of my childhood. *nods* Strangely, this one is pretty much the color of the cap without my changing it. But if it bugged you, it probably bugged others and it's something I know how to fix!

#2 Again, the clarity is fantastic. I always wonder how people do this.
If you want me to answer this, I'd be happy to. :)

The text in this one worked for you? It always bugged me and I've since decided part of the problem is that it overwhelms the composition.

#3 Hmm, not too helpful with this one – I like it, but it doesn’t grab me and make me take a second look.
No effects; that's the photo I took of him when he was onstage at a con. :) I agree completely that it isn't a "grabber." I threw that one in because I wanted unbiased reaction to it and it has confirmed my impressions. Peter Williams is a very nice guy and he deserves icons that grab a person. :)

#4 I have no feeling for whether a landscape icon works or not. I like playing with them, they're MILES more forgiving than a person when playing with color and effects, but I can never tell when it's "done" -- or when it's appealing. *shrug*

#5 I’m not a fan of Battlestar Galactica, so I don’t feel it would be fair to comment any further.
Well, if you hate the show and it tinges your view of the icon, I can see that. In any case, you gave an opinion and I'm good with that. :)

#7 Although, the dinosaurs are cute.
Eeek! Poor Godzilla! Reduced to cute! *snicker*

#8 Ah, my bad. It's an icon from Witchblade, an obscure sci fi show from several years ago. The text AND the font suck. They were meant to be place holders and then I developed a hole in my brain and somehow thought it was done. You don't need to be in the fandom, I think, to judge an icon or not but knowing the context determines whether one *likes* it, I think.

#8 Keith Hamilton Cobb. Most widely known, I think, for his role on Andromeda. Has a brain to go with the beauty, but only one of those is icon-izable. ;-)

#11 You might kick yourself for not recognizing Rainbow Sun Francks (Aiden Ford of Stargate Atlantis) but I'm very pleased that you didn't recognize him. That was my goal. :) I know, I'm weird, but it was made to match an AU story written by jalabert. He's supposed to look like a rap artist instead of Lieutenant Ford.

#12 Hee! Excellent because that's actually a seriously messed with photo. The original has an ominous orange sky (it's Hanka, where Nirrti poisoned everyone) and it's impossible to even see the team. I worked on that image a LOT to change the mood. I can't decide, though, if it's done. (See my earlier comments on landscapes.) It feels...unfinished. Maybe a texture of some sort but I'm loathe to distract from the pic. I don't know. I dither.

#13 I hated the episode story-wise but the visuals are compelling. I've revisited it any number of times.

#14 So, it feels done? Negative space makes me nervous but I *love* it when I'm looking at someone else's work. I let the negative space go here but was very surprised that nobody commented on saving it. Especially since I'd gotten comments about my *lack* of Ronan. I thought maybe it was people picking up a sense of it's *almost* done that I had felt in looking at it. Or, it could be nobody wanted yet another Ronan. :)

#15 It's such a great cap of him. That episode I both love and visit over and over for the wonderful images.

Ok, I’m not sure if this information is helpful at all.
It is! I tried very hard not to influence the observations in any way. I wanted to see what struck people as good - or bad - and what drew comments.

Don’t forget that I’ve snooped through your icons – I’m not entirely sure these are representative of your work.
Perhaps not. I do a LOT more in somebody's face icons than are represented here, but I think there's a sameness there. Critique one and you've critiqued 500. ;-)

I tried to choose various fandoms because I wanted to get reactions that were based on not knowing the show as well as having others tinged by fannish context. I wanted to include both close-ups and landscapes. I'd like to have included some that capture action, but I haven't really done any of those. That's something for me to work on. I wanted beefcake, humor, and plain old, "here's a character we all love."

I was going to include some Teryl icons but the ones I most wanted a comment on are all entered in the terylicious contest and any improvements would make me want to enter those and that wouldn't be fair, I think, since it wouldn't be my own work.