That actually doesn't seem like a hard crowd to cook for. The first three all seem primed for a good vegetarian holiday meal, and the last guy seems primed for eating the vegetarian stuff that doesn't look too much like healthy vegetables. :)

One cookbook I really like is the Vegetarian Times Thanksgiving Cookbook. There might be a lot of recipes in there you could use.

Good luck!

Ah..I should have been more specific. The brother is not fooled by unhealthy looking greenery; he sincerely never learned to like vegetables. I boggle at this.

*I* am vegetarian but the others are not content for their holiday meal to be. Their issue; their problem to solve. I will plan sides that are a meal of themselves and yet compliment whatever piece of flesh Joe decides to make. I'm pushing for steaks that can be grilled outdoors, which is where meat is often consigned in our house.

I won't touch it, eat it, clean up after it...but I don't impose my morals on them, either, much as I would love to have a vegetarian holiday.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. There are plenty of vegetarian dishes that have nothing to do with "vegetables". (I'm assuming he'll eat mashed potatoes and the like, even though they are, in fact, vegetables.) I was thinking in terms of some kind of hearty casserole, interesting side dishes, and everyone is happy. And if Joe is planning to make some kind of meat, that certainly seals the deal for me.

I won't touch it, eat it, clean up after it...but I don't impose my morals on them, either, much as I would love to have a vegetarian holiday.

I totally understand the idea of not imposing morals on others. I guess I've never had a problem doing it in my own home. I will sit in a steak house with a friend who is eating a huge steak and not even flinch. But I have always felt I had the right to say, "No meat in my living space." (If you share said living space with a meat eater, that's obviously a whole other issue. I'm referring to the guests, not to Joe.) My thought has always been that if someone has a problem with a vegetarian holiday, then by golly then can host and do all of the cooking and cleaning.

That being said, I do host my annual Vegetarian Thanksgiving Feast on a day other than Thanksgiving Day because I know how important having turkey on that day is for some people, and I know none of my non-vegetarian friends would come if it were on the day itself. I still don't feel responsible for cooking a turkey for anyone who IS in my home on the actual day. In fact, my biggest blowout with my in-laws ever was when they decided to come spend Christmas with us in Connecticut, and then decided to FLAT OUT IGNORE my requests to keep meat out of my home.

To each his/her own. But I don't cook meat, nor do I allow it in my home.

Accepting meat was a HUGE deal for me when I got together with Joe. It's a fundamental moral of mine. I suddenly grokked the kosher idea of keeping separate meat and dairy plates/utensils when I saw meat on my cutting board and plates the first time.

However, it isn't my house; it's our house. 95% of the food at our house is vegetarian and Joe happily eats and cooks vegetarian. He doesn't complain when I insist on hormone-free milk and free-range vegetarian eggs. I don't complain when he buys lunch meat or whatever. I don't interact with dead flesh and he doesn't expect me to. It works for us.

For anything other than a holiday meal, I wouldn't be serving anything other than vegetarian. I view it as a challenge to make meat-eaters forget the "lack" of meat. Holidays are a bit different because people have even more emotion than usual wrapped up in their food choices -- and most especially in the dead critter that lies in the middle of the table.

So, I make compromises. I still won't have anything to do with it. I plan a complete meal that doesn't rely on the meat but that complements it. It isn't my ideal but I've made a sort of peace with it.

As for ANYONE bringing into your house what you've made clear offends you? Damned straight that should piss you off. That's deliberately rude. If they worried they wouldn't get enough "real" food or whatever, they had the option to eat something ahead of time. That's what I do if I'm invited someplace where they're likely to ask me if vegetarians eat fish or who think picking the cooked potatoes and carrots out of the pot roast is a good plan for feeding me.

Sorry...to add another point...

One of my friends once told me that her mother, who is a vegetarian, was willing to cook meat for her because she knew it was what she wanted. The friend asked me, "Why wouldn't you do the same for someone you love?" My answer was, "Because I know that no one will starve to death without meat. You can eat a fully satisfying meal without involving any form of dead animal. So I wouldn't cook meat for someone I loved anymore than I would perform any other act I considered immoral just to appease the tastes and preferences of someone I loved."

I think people forget in discussion this issue that while meat-eaters can eat the vegetarian food, vegetarians can't eat the meat-food. So I don't consider it an issue that goes both ways.

OK - I despise, truly despise love litmus tests. Anyone doing that is playing games and I have no time for games.

Obviously from my answer above, I agree with you in general on the committing immoral acts in the name of love. That said, I have broken that moral a couple of times. Joe takes PHENOMENAL care of me when I'm sick. When he's really sick, he longs for chicken noodle soup but has never asked me for it. I will, in fact, go out to Whole Foods and buy the least offensive version I can find, heat it up, and serve it. When my dog was dying from cancer, I had to work hard to get him to eat. I bought free-range, organic ground beef and cooked it for him. I hated every minute of it but I admit my dog was more precious to me than gold.

I found it most telling how I felt to be standing in line to buy the stuff. Almost...dirty. Just like I did in 2000 when I voted for the first time ever in Republican primaries. I did it for an extra opportunity to vote against Bush.

OK - I despise, truly despise love litmus tests. Anyone doing that is playing games and I have no time for games.

Amen. :) This same friend is one who used to complain that my being vegetarian was "hard on her" because it made it harder for her to cook for me or eat out at restaurants with me. Not only did I disagree with her assessment, I also felt it unfair to place my moral choices in terms of how inconvenient they were for her. (She has since reevaluated that stance, and we are in much better standing over it.)

I applaud you for being able to cook chicken soup for Joe when he's sick. I'm not sure I could do it. But, then again, I'm not sure I would end up deciding to share a home with someone who wasn't also vegetarian. When Carlos and I got married, the agreement we made was that he could eat whatever he wanted outside of the house, but I wanted the home itself to be kept meat-free. He easily agreed to this, and in fact transitioned into being a vegetarian while being married to me. (He isn't one anymore now that we're divorced, but that's a whole other story.)

I see pets as being a completely different issue. Cats are carnivores. Dogs are carnivores. I don't like it, but I accept that as part of what I agree to by taking an animal into my home. I have read things from people who feed their dogs and cats vegetarian food. I think it's ridiculous. If my cat's health were dependent on my cooking meat for them, I'd suck it up and do it. I'm just glad it's not, because the dry kibble is far easier for me to deal with than actual meat would be. :)

It's interesting...I think the reason holiday meals are such a hot button issue for me is that, while I understand the emotional connection between a particular day and a particular meal, being unwilling to budge on that because you will be celebrating the meal in the home of a vegetarian says to me that the person has a very twisted view of what the holiday is about. These holidays are supposed to be about sharing special times with those we love, and being more aware of the blessings in our lives. Putting the craving for turkey ahead of the emotional well-being of a loved one is absolutely crack-headed to me. And, again, I have no problem with someone saying, "If we can't have turkey at your house, then why don't we host the meal so we can all be together, all have what we want to eat, and not violate the morals of your home?" Insisting on the meat being served in the vegetarian home is NOT a solution in my book.

Man, guess this touched a nerve today, huh? :) Thanks for the chance to get some thoughts out.

I applaud you for being able to cook chicken soup for Joe when he's sick.

I don't know that it's anything to applaud. I don't see it as anything to be used as an example to other vegetarians or to prove anything with; it simply is. I agreed entirely with your rejection of your friend's argument but then realized that I, too, had made exceptions. I have been faced with more immediate emotional situations where I chose to put aside my deeply-held moral objections. (I'm sure I looked funny wearing rubber gloves whilest handling the stuff.)

I would have preferred to fall in love with a vegetarian. Alas, I didn't get to choose.

For the record, nobody has insisted. Until my grandfather was thrown into the mix, I was pondering attempting a vegetarian holiday. This year has been a hard one for him and food has always occupied an emotional center for him. He grew up in the Depression in a poverty-riddled home...I'm sure you know the story. Part of my willingness to delay my plans until next year is in hopes of not changing too many things about his holiday.

Living with a meat eater opens this avenue because if it were just me, we wouldn't have meat. I don't like the stuff, I don't think it has a place at a table of celebration, and I find it disgusting. Luckily, I don't have to wrestle with the question. If it weren't that *I* would have precious little to eat, I'd arrange for us to go to one of those hotel X-mas dinners because it would just make everything so much easier to handle.

Touched a nerve today? Yes. I miss Mattnet for having a place to work out thoughts - though you haven't said anything I disagree with. If I ran a one-person household, I'd be running it the same way.

I meant to respond to the cookbooks part. I don't have the one you mention but I have to admit that the Vegetarian Times's cookbook was disappointing. I don't normally cook recipes but will browse a book for ideas and then combine parts of a couple recipes. (Baking's a whole other thing. I follow those recipes closely unless that call for cinnamon and vanilla, which I usually double or so.)

I've already delved into my books. Faves of mine are Vegetarian Epicure (I & II, especially) for the attitude though I have to adjst for fat, Nicki & David Goldbeck's Whole Foods, Horn of the Moon Cafe, and Southern Living's Company's Coming. Those, along with Better Homes & Gardens (of all things), see me through most parties. I'll probably break out my old bread board and make something from The Bread Book since I'm taking a couple of days off before X-mas.

If only my past attempts at challah hadn't been spectacular disasters, I'd be tempted to try it again since I'd have an appreciative audience.

I don't normally cook recipes but will browse a book for ideas and then combine parts of a couple recipes. (Baking's a whole other thing. I follow those recipes closely unless that call for cinnamon and vanilla, which I usually double or so.)

Ditto on all counts. :) I love starting with a great base recipe and riffing from there. (My first change is always to about quadruple whatever amount of garlic is suggested. Any recipe with the words "1 clove of garlic" in it makes me giggle.)

One really good internet resource is Allrecipes.com . They have a great vegetarian section (vegetarian.allrecipes.com) and a great holiday section (thanksgiving.allrecipes.com). Also, each of their main collections, including the Thanksgiving one, have vegetarian recipes in a separate section. My favorite ever stuffing recipe came from here.

I have a HUGE bookshelf of cookbooks, including many good vegetarian ones. I agree that the regular Vegetarian Times cookbook isn't all that inspiring. But their Thanksgiving specific cookbook is very useful.

ok - that stuffing recipe looks irresistible once it's vegetarian-ized. I'm going to have to pull out some of my favorite recipes. I made a holiday brussel sprout recipe with pecans one year that was popular. (The recipe calls for pistachios but my mom loves pecans.) Thanks for the heads-up on their T-giving book because I admit I never would have even looked at it after the disappointment of their other one.

I completely agree on garlic though I've gotten lazy. Day to day cooking I use the bottled variety, so it's a question of how many huge spoons to add. It's only for dishes where I saute/lightly burn slices of garlic that I do it the more labor-intensive way. In those cases, I do just as you say, easily quadrupling the amount.

Planning meals is fun so I'll enjoy the challenge. It's all the cleaning, organizing, and decorating I could do without. Oh yeah, and having to lock up my dogs since my grandfather shuffles and the boys like to be right at a person's feet. Bad, bad mix. *sigh*

Yeah, I almost forgot it asks for chicken broth. I make it with mushroom broth, which makes it more mushroom-y and smoky, and it's GREAT.

Have you got a particular brand you like? I've tried a couple here and there and I've never found one that imparted a lot of flavor.

What I've got in the pantry right now is the Pacific Organic mushroom broth in the quart box container. I've used it in soups and stews, and also when making mushroom risotto. Flavor-wise, think of it as a good sub for beef broth. If you want broth to sub for chicken broth without adding lots of flavor, I really like the Imagine Organic "No Chicken" broth. It's made to be more bland like chicken broth is. Both of these options are good if you don't want the overly vegetable flavor of veggie broth. The organic brands in the quart boxes tend to have MUCH better flavor than the canned stuff from a regular grocery store. You should be able to find the good broth at Whole Foods or Central Market.

I thought about this on my way home and I realized that I was failing to make an important connection.

My house is not vegetarian, alas. I'm not inviting my family into a vegetarian household. Food is huge in Joe's family. His mother is constantly testing out new recipes, his grandmother bakes pies with homemade crusts, and his youngest sister takes great pride in making any number of items from scratch. That's their family culture.

Our first Christmas together, he did it my way and he just was not happy. Since then, we've had a compromise: he's in charge of making certain his "have to have"s are done. I had been considering suggesting portabella fajitas for this year -- and I've even bought some fake chicken and steak strips to experiment with -- but now with my grandfather coming that's out as he's no fan of Tex-Mex. (I know, it's unAmerican!)

None of my family would dare be so gauche as to insist that I serve them meat. My grandfather might kvetch for years to come about a holiday without meat but nobody would insist I serve them anything. I called and invited them, interviewing each person about what foods he had to have for it to seem like a holiday. Except for the potato pankcakes & apple sauce, none of us absolutely has to have any particular food. Joe, otoh, has a long list of brunch foods AND dinner foods.

The first year we hosted, there were nervous jokes about tofurkey (they had no idea that actually existed) and the relief was palpable that Joe had arranged for a honey glazed ham.

Absolutely they could always politely decline or offer up other options. If I were a one-person household hosting this, it would never have been anything but vegetarian. We're much more interested in spending time together than in living in the kitchen so whatever we do, it'll be limited.

Of course, I could always throw in the towel and order Chinese food. ;-)

Oh, no, I got the distinction that you don't have a fully vegetarian house. Nothing you're talking about sounds like anyone has been unreasonable to you. I just know it would bother me. Which is why I don't think I'd be comfortable doing anything other than keeping a vegetarian home. I understand the whole "no choice in who you fall in love with" thing. But for me, at this point in my life, no matter what the eating habits were of someone I fell in love with, I don't think I could choose to share a home with someone who couldn't respect what I do enough to agree to keeping meat out of the house. (Had the question been posed to me as many years ago as you and Joe met, my answer would have been very different.)

Oh, and on the Tofurkey thing - if you've ever been curious, just don't do it. Yech. Nasty, nasty, nasty. It's like turkey flavored foam. Ewww... I greatly prefer making a good vegetarian recipe to finding something to directly replace the meat course. That VT Thanksgiving book has a recipe called "Harvest Vegetable Pie" that has become my standard Thanksgiving/Christmas entree.