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Stargate Question

Why did Carter need a 'naquadah detector' for the bomb search? Don't we have at least 6.5 seasons of canon that a former host can sense naquadah? Isn't that the whole point of having turned her into a human goa'uld detector? I thought it was the very lack of naquadah that meant she couldn't detect the naquadah-free goa'uld in The First Ones? I admit that I haven't been following the story lines as closely as I once did but this has been bugging me since it originally aired and I haven't seen any discussion.

Besides how ludicrous was it to have Ba'al cloning himself like that**, building a naquadah-enhanced building on Earth long before he came to the planet, his sudden Australian accent, and then the ludicrous story resolution of passing off a beamed-into-space building as having exploded in a gas leak...I sometimes wonder if they set out to write the stupidest story they can and then see if anyone notices.

**I'm not really complaining about the cloned Ba'als. Cliff Simon is hot. I'll take six of him running around my screen. They've never gotten the biology/social structure of a Lemarkian-inheritance-of-memory creature right and it annoys me. A goa'uld doesn't need to clone its host - its offspring ARE clones in the truest sense since they have "genetic memory." True, the multiples make it easier to confuse our heroes and the Jaffa, but the Stargate timelines suck. Ba'al would have been cloning his host long before the Earth Stargate was even opened to have so many adult clones that had stopped aging at the exact same age he is currently. I'll stop bitching now - I was really more interested in discussion of what happened to Carter's ability than in how the writers flaunt their science ignorance. ;-)

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First I have to say, the "wiggle" icon is hysterically funny.

Second, Sam *has* previously been able to sense the presence of a naquadah-carrying Goa'uld, so not exactly sure why she'd need any sort of detector. However, two thoughts...(1) she wasn't the only one scanning the building, and it was a *big* building and (2) maybe having the whole building being completely infused with the substance would have her senses on "overload", unable to pinpoint the exact source.

I questioned Teal'c's comment in another recent episode about the motherships not possessing cloaking capability. I thought Apophis had done that in that spatial minefield, in the episode where Jacob and SG-1 went to reprogram the mine to blow up one of the Goa'ulds' ships. ("It's all Phoenician to me, Sir!") But maybe he only cloaked lesser ships, not motherships - maybe had only *one* mothership, though I thought the term referred more to the size than the thought that they had only one per Goa'uld.

TPTB have answered the question of whether there was a "Bible" for the writers - in fact, said it was bigger than THE Bible - so either it's just carelessness or lack of time or just choosing to ignore stuff in the past because it messes up what they want to accomplish now.

Isn't it, though? I wish I'd made it because it's just so clever. I really should have used a Sam icon on this post since it's a question about her but I couldn't resist Daniel shaking his booty.

I wish they'd shown us Sam dealing with an overload of her senses and needing something less sensitive - but since she figures out that Ba'al interlaced the entire building with naquadah because the sensor indicates it's uniformly distributed throughout the building...I kinda think she'd have gotten the idea from the way the building pinged her equally where ever she was.

I just find it impossible to understand how not just the writers...but the actors, the crew, the editors...how many people in the production could have seen this and gone, "uh, guys...isn't Carter herself a naquadah detector?"

I wish they'd hold a Stargate marathon for everyone involved in the show because it seems like these inconsistencies are cropping up more frequently. When they're forgetting a major plot point like Sam being goa'ulded, finding the Tok'ra, and then being able to sense naquadah, then I have extreme difficulty in maintaining my suspension of disbelief.

I agree with you about Teal'c's comment on cloaking motherships. Of course goa'uld can cloak their motherships. I thought it was a recent innovation - that's why it was such a surprise back when Apophis (Pops! How I miss you! *sniffle*) cloaked his fleet of motherships - but we've known for years that they can do that.

How much naquadah would it take for her to sense it, I wonder? Maybe they were assuming a small amount.

But yeah, a line about the senses overloaded would have been appropriate. Maybe they cut it for time.

That is all fuzzy, isn't it? Luckily,

moonshayde gave me a fanwank I'm willing to run with in that we've never seen Sam detect naquadah that isn't in an organic being. Maybe she can't detect it in its inorganic state since she doesn't currently have a symbiote. That'll work for me. :)

I would have picked up on that, but I was still too busy laughing about the Jaffa landing on a rooftop and storming an office building.

I think it's become quite apparent that the writing crew at Stargate is a bit less concerned with quality control and staying true to already established events than they are with telling mediocre stories with lots of action. Of course, this isn't a new thing...to me it's just become more and more obvious because of the lack of emotional connection I feel with the characters - new and old.

Ah yes. For me this episode lurched from one jaw-dropping, "wtf?" to the next. It felt like either a very bad fanfic or a parody. In fact, if I'd been reading it, I'd have thought it was written by a Sam-basher. I hate, hate, hate the scene where Sam is questioning the blonde about her boss and the tart is dismissive and snide. Sam sits there and takes it; she's completely ineffectual.

*sigh* I'll stop. I love the original Sam and I hate how we periodically get scenes like this and the one in Fragile Balance where it's clear she gets no respect and has no authority. They do it at least once a season now and it peeves me. A little. ;-)

I know lots of people feel that way about Sam, but for me I think I've learned to just filter out the bad stuff or filter her out altogether, so things don't really bother me. I mean, the writers clearly don't believe they're making her appear this way to some or don't care enough to even think about it at all. Kind of like me, I guess. I never once entertained the idea that Sam's character was somehow slighted in this episode. I rarely see it, honestly - like that Fragile Balance scene. I think that was people in fandom totally extrapolating negative meaning where there was none. Why do that? It's not pleasurable. Better to extrapolate fun, positive things...

It is sad to me, though, that there are some people who actively hate Sam now because I just don't see reason for it. Not saying everyone has to like or love her, but to bash left, front and center pretty much constantly seems a bit harsh to me. I also don't see the point (I'm being repetitive) of always looking for the bad (I know some claim it smacks them in the face, but if I used to have knee jerk reactions to Sam and now don't...). How do you get over something if you just simply don't put any (apparent) effort into it?

I should shut up.

They bother me not because I feel negatively about the character but because I still love the character. I hate what the show has done to her. I hate the way she's been reduced to her ovaries and big, blue eyes. Someone, somewhere wrote a great recap of Threads, which I'm going to mangle but it went something along the lines of, "Daniel confronts the Ancients and takes on Anubis in a showdown that will determine the future of our galaxy. Meanwhile, back on Earth, Sam gets cold feet about the wedding."

I hate that the woman who in the pilot walked into a room filled with superior officers and demanded their respect by not letting the Boyz Club get away with their tittering remarks is nowhere to be seen. Yeah, her lines were strident and a bit shrill in the pilot, but this was a woman who demanded the respect that she had earned.

I think competance is sexy. It's one the reasons I hate earth-bound episodes. It turns my uber-competant team into the Keystone Kops. *sigh* No, you shouldn't shut up. I welcome all points of view. I don't hold stock with Sam-bashing. Being a fan isn't a zero-sum game in which liking one requires hating another.

I really have promised myself to stop getting all pissy over these issues because in the end, it's just t.v. I have a Zen Fan place where I go. I don't care that the scripts are for crap. I don't care that the characters traits I most admired about the characters are harder and harder for me to see. 'Cause there are some very pretty men running around in sleeveless shirts, strapping god knows what around their thighs (but who cares so long as they continue doing it, right?), and generally flaunting their maleness.

I have Battlestar Galactica to keep me intellectually fulfilled and satisfy my craving for thoughtful storytelling. SG-1 gives me lots of pretty men to enjoy. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Ugh, I just posted a looong post and LJ ate it. shall try again

Your icon is disturbing.

My work here is done. *exits stage left*

Yeah, right. I just had a look at all your other icons. You are a pervy girl, aren't you?

Absolutely.

Yeah, Yeah. I see you icon change, smart-ass.

I lost it again. Someone doesn't want me talking to you *looks suspicious*

Aside from the fact we know the real answers for these questions (i.e. the writers) we'll go into fanwank land. I love science, but haven't been involved with it in a long time, so maybe you can toss some of this out or just fill in the gaps for me.

Sam--I'm taking the route that maybe her super funky Tok'ra powers aren't so super or funky anymore. Jolinar left her years agao and as time as passed, we've heard less and less of Sam's ability to sense the Goa'uld. Is it possible that the naquadah in her blood is losing it's properties? Or just over time, it's become less effective? And clear something from me, I don't remember much. Can you only sense naquadah in people or can she feel it in objects too?

As for Ba'al...okay, that makes no sense to me but whatever. First of all, why would someone who is evil with a god complex want to make more of himself? Sure, I bet I'd love to have a bunch of me that would do nothing to gain power. He's going to have to worry about self-assasination.

But I don't know. Maybe they are Goa'uld/human hybrids like we saw in Ressurrection. If humans can do it, why not Goa'uld? Or maybe they are similair to Kalek (or whatever his name is) from Prototype. If they aren't hybirds like in those two examples, what about Anubi's clonign technology? Maybe they used it to spawn Ba'al-esque symbiotes that would be subservient to him. We don't even know where the real Ba'al is. He might not even be on Earth. Either way, he's got to be working with someone to get on the planet.

And what was with that lady? Who is she? Is she Ba'al? Is she another Goa'uld that we haven't heard of? Just another hybrid or clone?

I assume this will come up again later in the season somehow.

But yeah, we shouldn't have to fanwank so hard...need more consistent scripts.

Someone doesn't want me talking to you

I blame the NSA. Or whichever gov't agency is illegally monitoring my communications.

I'm taking the route that maybe her super funky Tok'ra powers aren't so super or funky anymore.

I've actually wrestled with this whole issue for awhile. I'll buy that the super funky Tok'ra power is something like the sense of smell and naquadah in her blood (as of Season 5, it was still there) makes her able to perceive it in others. For the naquadah to be persistent, it has to be something your kidneys and liver can't filter but it can't be very reactive if it's just going to free float in your blood for years on end. Alas, my physics is woefully shaky, but I'm pretty certain an inert material would make a lousy supercapacitor like we've been told the Stargate is. I've ignored it for now as sufficiently advanced beyond my admittedly miniscule grasp of maerial science as to resemble magic.

OK, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief because I like Carter's ability to sense naquadah. So, it isn't volatile and isn't eternally persistent. Maybe naquadah has a half-life and we're seeing the results of its breakdown? But...materials with half-lives tend to be very unhealthy to have floating around in one's bloodstream and often deposit in bones rather than circulating in the blood.

Can you only sense naquadah in people or can she feel it in objects too?

Very good point. Hathor could do both; she tracked down the under-a-mountain-Stargate from another country. But you know, it isn't as if Carter later walks into Hathor's fake gateroom and says, "That Gate 'feels' wrong!" Maybe you need an active symbiote to sense it in an inorganic application? I find this tenuous but I'll take that fanwank. Thank you!

He's going to have to worry about self-assasination.

Yup - and that's my big gripe about their understanding of social structure/biology of creatures that are essentially clones. Ants and bees are highly cooperative and I can totally see the Ba'als working together very well and being deadly to goa'uld of other genetic lines - but Stargate has set even the clones against each other. So why in the world would he make a series of assassins who would go after him and who know everything he does?

Sorry - I shouldn't have gone into the science geekery. In truth, the biology on this show makes my teeth hurt at times. Thankfully my physics is weak enough that I can usually gloss over difficulties like time travel and the whole set of Moebius storylines.

You bring up many good points. We have no clue where the original Ba'al is. I'm assuming the original is the one who tortured Jack in Abyss, but trying to figure out the sanity of this story development leaves me feeling like I'm in one of his rooms with reversible gravity. Obviously, the blonde tart is evil and I'd like to know who she is and why she's working with him. (Beyond the fact that he's hot. And there are however many there of His Hotness.) I really hope she isn't Ba'al because that just squicks me. Maybe she's his Amonet? I like that solution better -- less squicky.

Yeah, I am hoping that the woman is not Ba'al either but it's always a possibility with these people *sigh* I'm hoping that she's just the one calling the shots for Big Ba'al himself and that he is not on Earth at all. That would make more sense.

And even if these are subordinate clones and/or hybrids, their age can be explained by nanites or whatever those were called. The Goa'ulds used all of those fun toys. I wouldn't dismiss the lameness of the Ba'al story just yet.

True - the nanites could accelerate their development. That would be a nice canon tie-in and solve the "painted into a corner" problem.

I do hope they make something of Ba'al. I was so excited about Camulus but they didn't take that anywhere I thought would be cool. Then again, I did enjoy Steve Bacic in those duds he wore when he arrived. The man looks good in a chest plate and a skirt.

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