Mac/Windows Compatability Question

[hsapiens]

If someone who has a Windows system wanted to switch to a Mac,

1. Which Mac runs Windows/Windows-native applications? Specifically, Photoshop CS2.
2. Does the Mac require purchase of all new peripherals (monitor, printer, external hard drives)? (I suspect this answer is, "depends on the peripheral and who made it," but I'm hoping for a "duh, of course it wouldn't!")
3. Would purchase of the Windows-capable Mac mean the peripherals still worked?

The important thing here is to avoid purchasing a Vista-infested box.

ETA: I'm assuming there are good web references with which to educate myself. If you know of any good ones, I'd appreciate your letting me know. :)

Comments

[darksylvia.livejournal.com]

Any of the newer macs can run the emulators that make it possible to use windows on the mac machine, and thus windows software. But getting the mac version of the software (mac Word, photoshop CS2 for mac) will still probably work better.

You shouldn't have to purchase new peripherals. Most of them you can just plug into the mac and they will automatically work. I think it mostly depends on how old the peripherals are--like, are they still selling right now? If they are, it's almost guaranteed they'll work just from plugging them in. And I'm pretty sure the windows-capable mac would still be able to use the peripherals.

Also, this is an article about a 'windows expert' who converted to mac for a while.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

I'll be off reading that article over lunch, thank you. :) I'm sure native apps would work better. And for things like Word that's a relatively small investment. For Photoshop, though...that's an expensive investment. I sincerely doubt I'd qualify for Upgrade pricing since I'd be switching platforms.

That's a real stickler for me and I was hoping to use that money for whopping expensive things like memory. (I only thought some of the older Wintel box memory was high priced.) My monitor and external hard drives are both new enough to still be on the market so I should be ok there. I had a moment of panic that it would want to reformat or be unable to read any of the files I have stored there. My printer is an HP office jet of some sort but it's a few years old so...maybe?

[darksylvia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, photoshop is a pretty big switch over. I think if the mac people were really thinking they'd work some sort of deal out with Adobe about that.

Anyway, I think your printer would probably work, too. At the very worst you'd have to download a driver, but you probably won't even have to do that!

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

*grin* I don't think Apple has EVER been about saving its customers money. Frustration, perhaps, but not money.

The more I think about it, the happier I will be if I bite the bullet and switch to Photoshop for Macs.

[la-directora.livejournal.com]

I now have two of the Windows-capable Macs in my house. Best of both worlds. I'm very happy with my systems. I use them as just Mac systems 99% of the time, but when I REALLY want to do something Windows related (which at the moment seems to be just the CD label printing software for my printer, which isn't compatible with the new Mac OS, but is with Windows), it's very easy to launch Windows. In order to do this, you just need to get an Intel-chip Mac, which is most of the newer models. (So, for example, a Macbook instead of a Powerbook or iBook, and the newer Mac Mini or Mac Pro for desktop machines.)

I agree with the other commenter who suggests getting the Mac version of Photoshop. It works MUCH better than Photoshop on Windows. But, if you don't want to buy new software, your Windows version will run on Windows on your Mac.

Be aware that getting the Parallels Desktop software and a version of Windows loaded on your Mac will add about $300 to the purchase price. But if you have your own Windows install disks, you can do jut the Parallels Desktop, and then install Windows yourself. (Which will also keep you from going anywhere near Vista. *shudder*)

Your peripherals should all work. I'd be surprised if any didn't. Just be aware you may run into problems like I did with specialized sofware/drivers. The problem I had was my Epson printer, which prints directly on CDs, is not providing an updated version of the CD printing software for the Intel Mac OS. So that I have to run under Windows. But I can use the printer for anything else directly on the Mac. And I've never run into any peripheral that caused me problems.

I cannot be enthusiastic enough about your possible switch. I *heart* my Macs so very, very much.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

:| This is a lot to consider. I was looking at the Mac Pro but if I'm going to be investing as heavily in software as it seems, I need to cut back on the hardware expense. A MacMini might be more appropriate.

So far the consensus is to re-purchase Photoshop. Not at all what I wanted to hear. *sigh* It's best to go into this with my eyes open, though, so I'm glad I asked now. I don't want to upgrade only to find that I get worse performance.

I know that if I make the switch, I'll eventually be very happy. It's just that what was a generous budget to buy a Wintel box really doesn't go very far with Macs, much less Macs + new software.

[la-directora.livejournal.com]

Let me be clear - when I said I suggested repurchasing the software, it was at least in part because I have found that the Mac version of Photoshop running on a Mac is far superior to the Windows version of Photoshop running ON A WINDOWS MACHINE. I wasn't even talking about running the Windows version on the Windows emulator on the Mac machine. Stuff like Photoshop is what Macs were made for, and my personal experience is that Windows machines just don't do those kinds of tasks as well.

And when you compare your purchasing budget between Macs and PCs, try to compare apples to apples. A Mac Pro is a SUPER high end machine. I'd be surprised if you actually need something that powerful. I bought it because I wanted to render film editing projects as fast as possible while also running several other applications. But my $2500 Macbook (which was that expensive because of my choices in hard drive and memory size, plus the installation of Parallels/Windows) does a really fantastic job. It's possible that for what you need a lower end Mac will do the job. And a lower end Mac plus the native version of Photoshop might well cost what a high-end PC would cost, and in the long run do a better job.

Just something to consider.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

Very true -- and something I should definitely keep in mind. I probably am pricing systems well over my current needs. I've learned to buy the best processor and most RAM I possibly can to make a machine last (my current home machine dates to 2001, pre-USB 2.0). Not only because who knows what I'll want to do with it in, say, 3 years time, but also because software upgrades over time invariably need more processor power and more RAM.

I worry about something like the MacMini because it seems to me that I wouldn't have a lot of upgrade potential -- or replacement parts if something broke. Maybe I'm still thinking too much like a Windows user, though, and I'd find an Apple didn't need upgrading like a Windows box?

I was definitely comparing it to a high-end Windows machine. Dell, who I'd rather avoid but will buy from if necessary, has started offering Win XP again on its upper end CPUs. It didn't come out significantly cheaper but for slightly less money, it would have twice as many hard drives, twice as much RAM, two graphics cards, and an extra monitor (dual monitors! yes!!!!!). Since I knew that all of my software and peripherals would work, I was sinking money into the hardware.

Decisions, decisions. As I said down there in another comment, I think I've grown used to WalMart prices and now that I'm hoping for Neiman Marcus service, I'm having a little sticker shock.

[gentlyepigrams]

We have a mini. It's essentially a laptop in a box.

I made do with a TiBook for 4 years and we did upgrade memory and the hard drive during that time. Yay for being married to a former hardware guy! I don't remember when I bought the new machine, but I run photoshop (CS2) and have had no urge to upgrade in the year or so since I did so.

I checked the Adobe web site and there's no love on crossgrading as far as I can tell. Keep an ear to the ground for that, or for a package through Apple that lets you buy the Adobe stuff on the cheap. That's how I got my first Photoshop.

[la-directora.livejournal.com]

I just had a thought...I'm still trying to sell a used Powerbook that just might serve your purposes quite nicely, and to which you could probably connect your existing monitor to give yourself dual monitor functionality. If the only reason you needed to keep Windows functionality was for your old version of Photoshop, I can solve that problem for you by leaving the version of Photoshop I have on the Powerbook when I send it to you, as well as the version of Office that's on it.

Let me know if you're interested, and I'll e-mail you the specs.

[ex-katiedamm852.livejournal.com]

*points to what darksylvia said*

New Macs can run Windows in virtualized mode (technically better than emulation) or as a dual-boot using Boot Camp. In the former, heavy-hitters like CS2 will suck monkeys. In the latter, said heavy-hitters should be fairly okay, though Boot Camp is unsupported beta and not totally perfect. In either case? Outfit your Mac with as much RAM as you can afford.

Peripherals should be okay, provided they are USB. Your monitor would likely be VGA or DVI, and the Mac will either handle that natively or offer an adapter.

I just came across this while trolling the Mac news today: It's About Time: Switch to Mac (http://www.itsabouttimeproducts.com/switch_to_mac/).

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

OK - I'm going to have to suck it up and re-purchase Photoshop. Yanno, I wouldn't have upgraded to CS2 if I had really thought about it. I'll have two Photoshop machines instead of one. I guess I can figure out some good from that.

That RAM is pretty expensive. $400 extra to give a Mac Pro 4GB but $1400 extra to give it 8 GB?!? That's...steep. It's all in 1 GB increments so I don't understand why the second 4 GB is 2.5x the price. How many GB do you have? Does it run Photoshop comfortably or do you wish you had a little more?

Thanks for the link! I used to be a Mac person and I wouldn't mind returning to the fold. It's just that I've gotten used to the WalMart prices; I'm having Neiman Marcus sticker shock. ;-)

[ex-katiedamm852.livejournal.com]

Apologies - I should have added, "Never buy the additional RAM from Apple." Try here (http://dealnews.com/memory/) first.

I have 2GB on my work MacBook Pro, and it's pretty darn swell. I would always like more, but - not on my dime. :)

At home my 1GB of RAM on a 4 year old computer is rather tired, but I still get by.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

lol! I would heartily agree with you after looking at their pricing.

Do you have a docking station for the MacBookPro? I've been pondering a laptop/docking station combo vs. new, tricked-out CPU and a used, minimal laptop for trips. (I didn't bother mentioning that part earlier because if it was going to cost what I was now fearing, the laptop was not going to happen).

By tired, does that mean you have long delays for graphics to refresh on your screen? What if you're applying a filter or doing an operation on a large photo file in Photoshop? If current Photoshop taxes 1 GB, I definitely want more because Photoshop is never going to get less resource intensive.

[la-directora.livejournal.com]

The reason the RAM escalates in price that way is the difference in what kinds of memory chips you have to use to increase the memory that much. To upgrade a Mac Pro to 4 GB of RAM, you use (I think?) 512 MB chips. But to upgrade to 8 GB, you use (again, not positive) either 1 GB or 2 GB chips. The larger chips are more expensive per MB than the smaller chips.

Now, I would HIGHLY doubt that you need more than 4 GB of RAM. Hell, on my MacBook I upgraded to just 3 GB in order to be sure I could run Final Cut Studio well. And Final Cut Studio is a MUCH bigger memory hog than Photoshop.

Seriously, the more I think about it the more I think a Mac Pro is overkill for anyone who isn't using any of the apps Mac designates as "pro apps" - Final Cut, After Effects, Pro Tools, etc. I'd suggest looking at the Mac Mini and iMac to see if they'll suit your needs. And the pricetags are MUCH lower.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

That would make sense except that it's 4x 1 GB vs. 8 x 1 GB memory...uh, modules? I understood why there was a $1800 price jump to get 8GB when it was 4 x 2GB but that wasn't this case. :) However, it seems that 8 GB is more than I can reasonably expect to need, even 4 years hence, so it's no longer a point of extreme annoyance.

The price tags ARE much lower. I just looked at a "fully loaded" MiniMac with 20" monitor (because I really want the dual monitor thing) and it's much more in the range of what I hoped to spend on the CPU.

I still remain a little concerned about underbuying because I don't replace my computer on a 3 or even 4 year cycle. My current one is 6 years old and I'm only considering replacing it because I've maxed out its memory options and it's still underpowered for today's Photoshop. But if a MiniMac will allow me to get a good enough processor and enough RAM, that's probably what I should be looking at.

[ter369.livejournal.com]

Dell is still selling about four (new) PCs that come with XP. They also offer refurbished PCs and laptops that run XP Pro and Home.

I was at Best Buy this week. They can order various computers with XP on them, but it costs more.

I'm shopping for a new laptop; Vista is incompatible with my ISP (and therefore e-mail address) of the past twelve years.

Last night, I saw tons of gently used laptops & computers on eBay that run XP.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

Yes they do! I've been pricing those once I saw what Mac Pros sold for. The Dell boxes come with lots of cool graphics card options, a whopping amount of memory for the buck, and a nice second monitor.

Thanks for the news about Best Buy. I didn't know any manufacturer other than Dell was offering Win XP still. I thought I was down to Dell vs. Apple -- or going the third way of Linux.

While I'm willing buy a refurbished laptop or a used one from someone I know, I'm leery of purchasing one through eBay -- though since I bought my car that way, I'm probably just being a Luddite. I'm weighing all my options and now that I know I don't have to add $1400 to a $2500 base model Mac Pro system just to get enough memory to run Photoshop, I have a lot more options than I'd originally feared!

[nialla]

You might want to check out TigerDirect.com. They're still selling XP laptops and desktops, with many that are refurbished but still under a warranty (generally a year from what I can tell).

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

Oh man -- those prices are SWEET. I can even build-to-order, though I'm completely unfamiliar with the maker.

Looks like that's where I'll probably end up getting my inexpensive laptop if there's money for that after replacing my CPU. Those are some amazingly good deals.

[ter369.livejournal.com]

Hee! I was praising your advice farther down in the thread .....

[ter369.livejournal.com]

While I'm willing buy a refurbished laptop or a used one from someone I know, I'm leery of purchasing one through eBay --

Me, too. That's why I checked with a local repair shop first, to see if they had any used ones for sale. Only one, because of course that's what people want.

Good luck in your search, and if you learn of any useful sites or search methods, please share the news.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I will. Tigerdirect.com has some absolutely unbelievable deals on refurbished/open box laptops with Win XP. I'm thinking that if I can restrain myself not to blow it my whole budget on a desktop and if the possible Mac laptop discussed above falls through, that I'll be buying one of those cheap laptops for travel.

[tubin.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.

A cheap way to get the computer and software you want: look around for a local state school or community college that's offering a class you might like to take anway. Sign up (sometimes will even work if you sign up to audit). Then buy stuff on student prices.

Once I'd experienced using Photoshop Mac, I am not sure I'd ever want to go back to using the PC version. I seem to recall photoshop was made for mac and then kluged for windows later.

but buy an intel mac, I have a power mac and they're really noisy.

[hsapiens.livejournal.com]

Excellent timing! I was JUST talking to a friend about this and she was telling me how much money cold be saved through an education discount. Now that's another whole thing to look into -- and maybe I can even learn something on the side.

Now that I've heard so much about how much better Photoshop for Macs is, I'm really looking forward to trying it. :)